The conflict has spread into Pakistan and the Taliban continue to be an enemy very difficult to deal
from What's Up in June 2009
(editor's note: This interview was conducted before the situation in Afghanistan getting worse, what would have happened from there a short time ...)
In Afghanistan the war going on now for eight years and the country, one of the poorest in the world, seems unable to ever rebuild. The Kabul government has difficulty in imposing its authority. On 18 May a convoy carrying the president's brother, Ahmad Wali Karzai, was attacked by an armed commando of grenade launchers and assault rifles emerged miraculously unscathed. The attacks by the Taliban have repeatedly gone against the institutions or the local police and have as their main military and civilian casualties in Afghanistan. In recent months the front in the war against the Taliban has shifted to the east, towards the border of Pakistan. The road from Kabul through the Khyber Pass and reached Islamabad, for which Americans spend a lot of supply has become very insecure and all the tribal areas of Waziristan and the Swat Taliban fighters pouring into Afghanistan, making dangerous border areas.
The Americans have recently assigned a new commander, Major General Stanley McChrystal, strongly criticized in the past for his direct responsibility in the use of torture of Iraqi prisoners (and the death of one of them) and now called by Obama to solve the problem of Taliban fighters in Pakistan. For us Italians is present in Afghanistan region Division General Mark Bertolini.
In Afghanistan there are about 2800 Italian soldiers with the command in the north-western province of Herat. What are the specific directives of the military mission?
"Italian soldiers in Afghanistan shall comply with the tasks arising from the mission of ISAF, to which they belong. This mission, in brief, is to support the Government of Afghanistan (Government of Islamic Republic of Afghanistan - a turn) in affirming the its control and authority in the country. In this context, the ISAF operations are concentrated in the areas of security, governance and reconstruction and development. Safety is an indispensable condition to develop effective governance in a country very divided and "complex" and to develop an equally effective activities for Reconstruction and Development. For safety, the units are mostly active in support of ISAF units of the ANA (Afghan National Army) and ANP (Afghan National Police). In support of ANA and ANP is an ongoing and complex activities to develop skills in order to enable the Afghans themselves to manage first-hand the challenges to their security. This activity is carried by OMLT, units of the Italian Army (and other armies), operating literally within the units' Afghan .
Civilian casualties of the conflict increasingly rising in number. By an average over all available estimates, by 2001 almost 10 thousand and in 2008 alone, according to the UN, are 2118, in large numbers caused by coalition forces. These days it took the bloodiest massacre of civilians in the history of the conflict by the American contingent, they speak of 120/150 non-combatants died in the province of Farah. As you lay the Italian military forces in the face of these situations?
"The premise of the application is inaccurate. ISAF does not escape its responsibilities, but 80% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan are caused by actions of the insurgents. Few have noticed, for example, that the same day that leaped to the attention of international media the tragedy of Farah Province, following a U.S. air intervention in support of the Afghan unit attacked during a routine patrol, insurgents bombed with rockets a girls' school in a province near the border with Pakistan, and two days later, a suicide was blasted in an area south of the country, causing many casualties among the population and killing two British soldiers.
For all of the various military contingents, not only for the Italian soldiers, every civilian victim is a source of great pain, especially when caused by our actions. We are not here, in Afghanistan, to kill innocent people and are aware that the pain caused to family and society as a whole from these events can not be deleted. On the contrary, the safety of the local population is at the heart of all our efforts and, if you allow me, of all our sacrifices, so every death and wounding of civilians each represents a stinging defeat for us all. But the situation in the country is complex and must consider that in the whole territory, with particular reference to the southern provinces, held a bitter confrontation with entities from the aggressive and well-equipped insurgents, who often hide among the population. Our soldiers frequently refrain from responding to attacks in order not to involve innocent, but this obviously is not always possible. "
the military mission Italian in Afghanistan, despite having the purpose of peacekeeping, is often found in situations where the gun battle is inevitable. How is experienced by our soldiers now?
"Technically speaking, this is not a mission of Peace Keeping but Enforcing Peace. The difference between the two is that in the first there is a peace agreement between the parties that international forces should simply provide us with their presence For the latter, peace is not achieved and must be imposed, often with the use of weapons. As for our military is not the first time you face such situations (I think, for example, to Somalia where even used to take conscripts, which is not pulled back).
And if you want to know how our soldiers are living under the emotional such occurrences, it asks me to deal with subjective aspects difficult to treat. In any case, for all the emotional involvement is deep. But our soldiers, like those of other countries, are aware of their duties and risks associated with it and face them with determination. "
Recently you might have gotten involved in an unfortunate incident where he killed a little girl 13. the rules of engagement he's talked about, as well as the error of civilians or the military, but, as regards the human dimension, what happens in the population local events when they happen like that? As the local population perceives the presence of foreign armed forces that can make even very serious mistakes? There were times of confrontation with the local population?
"What dell'uccisone a 13 year old girl some time ago by one of our units is a drama that has greatly affected our full quota. No doubt it was an accident, but it is also equally certain that our children have followed the rules of engagement and the procedures in force to address what they perceived as a threat. Regarding the various investigations are in progress and I will not say more.
Regarding the reaction of the population, it is clear that the pain of the relatives of the little victim is inconsolable, but by the authorities and the rest of the population there has been understanding and there have been no incidents of protest against us. This is because the bonds that have come to create between the Italians and the premises are strong and everyone recognizes the efforts and sacrifices that our people do to ensure local people the best living conditions.
Our kids, of course, have suffered deeply what had happened, even though they know they do not have to criticize anything. But this awareness is obviously not enough to wipe out an episode that I think will mark their lives forever.
Let me suggest a thought. While the incident is a tragedy, it is equally true that it would be considered a drama, the attitude of renunciation that could be induced in our men from fear of having to pressure from the media and the authorities in case of other sensitive situations. They, in fact, is required to continue to operate in the same dangerous environment in which these events took place, and if they chose to shut themselves up in camps in order to avoid painful situations like the one in question, would be the first to lose the Afghans, who would be left to themselves. "
How is a young Italian soldier so strong professional experience in an area at risk and with tasks that pose a risk to their lives? What climate do we live?
"I have no age, unfortunately, to get me an interpreter of the young soldiers of today. But I have been a boy and I found them as difficult to deal with similar experiences and engaging (I speak of Lebanon in 1981, Somalia and the Balkans essentially). There is no doubt that this experience very morally. It is in contact with people different from ours, you quickly learn to admire the strength with which they deal with difficulties that we would be unimaginable. We see and we understand the world as it really is, without the distorting effects triggered by this powerful filter that is television. In other words, we de-provincialization quickly and you realize how our rich and terrified the West is wrong to treat people with contempt and arrogance is often better than us, for simplicity, frugality, willingness to sacrifice, sense of 'honor and respect for people. Of course, above all, that if we were born in the rich part of the world is certainly not to our credit. "
In recent months, referring to the conflict in this region, is often spoken of Af-Pak, ie Afghanistan and Pakistan with regard to enlargement face to the neighboring provinces of Pakistan due to the exodus of the civilian population in those areas and attacks from the Taliban, in fact, Pakistan. The Americans are actively engaged militarily. What orders has to respect the Italian contingent? What do you think of this shift to the east of the conflict?
"Afghanistan and Pakistan are certainly linked by a common destiny. The instability in one country may not be reflected in a corresponding instability in the other. Of this, now, the entire international community if they have noticed and also the two countries are acting accordingly, working ever more strongly. In any case, this situation not affect the duties of the Italian contingent, which is framed in ISAF, only serves to support the Afghan government. In other words, no contingent of ISAF is involved with operations of any kind in Pakistan. "
often gets the impression that any American military action is undeniable and justified, while the other quotas must inevitably have the permission to move U.S. . Besides, the Afghan president Karzai has often been called the "mayor of Kabul" to emphasize his lack of authority outside the capital. What is the relationship between the commanders in the Italian and Afghan authorities? Refer them to discuss and decide on military intervention , or your partner remain ISAF military leaders led by the Americans? The U.S. attack on Pakistani provinces was planned with the international command?
"The American commander of ISAF, but the command itself is NATO, which is composed of officers of all countries of the Alliance. The Deputy Commander is British and I, an Italian, I am the Chief of Staff . There are also General German, French, English, Australian, Dutch and American, of course. At the lower levels, the representation of NATO (and beyond) is extended. In addition, there are also Afghan liaison officers, which are coordinated through all activities operational support to the Afghan Army, involved in activities in full, from the planning stage.
Afghanistan is historically a country almost impossible to conquer. In 2001, eight years ago, the Americans have invaded the country to fight a global war on terrorism, following an international mission was to defeat the Taliban and rebuild a democratic country. Then the Iraq and Afghan conflict has lost its importance. Today there is talk of the Taliban threat and both countries are to be rebuilt . What is the future of the mission in Afghanistan, where the real opportunities and what are the hardest obstacles to overcome?
"There is no doubt that the future Afghanistan depends on how the policy will reconcile enmities that now seem incurable. Moreover, it is a difficult goal to achieve, if we consider that 64 years after the end of World War II we Italians are not able to heal the wounds that caused each other and our fathers. This is a task of peace that can only fall into the hands of the Afghans. To us, the task of helping them, providing security to their Governments, so that his authority and expand his control over the territory. "
from What's Up in June 2009
(editor's note: This interview was conducted before the situation in Afghanistan getting worse, what would have happened from there a short time ...)
In Afghanistan the war going on now for eight years and the country, one of the poorest in the world, seems unable to ever rebuild. The Kabul government has difficulty in imposing its authority. On 18 May a convoy carrying the president's brother, Ahmad Wali Karzai, was attacked by an armed commando of grenade launchers and assault rifles emerged miraculously unscathed. The attacks by the Taliban have repeatedly gone against the institutions or the local police and have as their main military and civilian casualties in Afghanistan. In recent months the front in the war against the Taliban has shifted to the east, towards the border of Pakistan. The road from Kabul through the Khyber Pass and reached Islamabad, for which Americans spend a lot of supply has become very insecure and all the tribal areas of Waziristan and the Swat Taliban fighters pouring into Afghanistan, making dangerous border areas.
The Americans have recently assigned a new commander, Major General Stanley McChrystal, strongly criticized in the past for his direct responsibility in the use of torture of Iraqi prisoners (and the death of one of them) and now called by Obama to solve the problem of Taliban fighters in Pakistan. For us Italians is present in Afghanistan region Division General Mark Bertolini.
In Afghanistan there are about 2800 Italian soldiers with the command in the north-western province of Herat. What are the specific directives of the military mission?
"Italian soldiers in Afghanistan shall comply with the tasks arising from the mission of ISAF, to which they belong. This mission, in brief, is to support the Government of Afghanistan (Government of Islamic Republic of Afghanistan - a turn) in affirming the its control and authority in the country. In this context, the ISAF operations are concentrated in the areas of security, governance and reconstruction and development. Safety is an indispensable condition to develop effective governance in a country very divided and "complex" and to develop an equally effective activities for Reconstruction and Development. For safety, the units are mostly active in support of ISAF units of the ANA (Afghan National Army) and ANP (Afghan National Police). In support of ANA and ANP is an ongoing and complex activities to develop skills in order to enable the Afghans themselves to manage first-hand the challenges to their security. This activity is carried by OMLT, units of the Italian Army (and other armies), operating literally within the units' Afghan .
Civilian casualties of the conflict increasingly rising in number. By an average over all available estimates, by 2001 almost 10 thousand and in 2008 alone, according to the UN, are 2118, in large numbers caused by coalition forces. These days it took the bloodiest massacre of civilians in the history of the conflict by the American contingent, they speak of 120/150 non-combatants died in the province of Farah. As you lay the Italian military forces in the face of these situations?
"The premise of the application is inaccurate. ISAF does not escape its responsibilities, but 80% of civilian casualties in Afghanistan are caused by actions of the insurgents. Few have noticed, for example, that the same day that leaped to the attention of international media the tragedy of Farah Province, following a U.S. air intervention in support of the Afghan unit attacked during a routine patrol, insurgents bombed with rockets a girls' school in a province near the border with Pakistan, and two days later, a suicide was blasted in an area south of the country, causing many casualties among the population and killing two British soldiers.
For all of the various military contingents, not only for the Italian soldiers, every civilian victim is a source of great pain, especially when caused by our actions. We are not here, in Afghanistan, to kill innocent people and are aware that the pain caused to family and society as a whole from these events can not be deleted. On the contrary, the safety of the local population is at the heart of all our efforts and, if you allow me, of all our sacrifices, so every death and wounding of civilians each represents a stinging defeat for us all. But the situation in the country is complex and must consider that in the whole territory, with particular reference to the southern provinces, held a bitter confrontation with entities from the aggressive and well-equipped insurgents, who often hide among the population. Our soldiers frequently refrain from responding to attacks in order not to involve innocent, but this obviously is not always possible. "
the military mission Italian in Afghanistan, despite having the purpose of peacekeeping, is often found in situations where the gun battle is inevitable. How is experienced by our soldiers now?
"Technically speaking, this is not a mission of Peace Keeping but Enforcing Peace. The difference between the two is that in the first there is a peace agreement between the parties that international forces should simply provide us with their presence For the latter, peace is not achieved and must be imposed, often with the use of weapons. As for our military is not the first time you face such situations (I think, for example, to Somalia where even used to take conscripts, which is not pulled back).
And if you want to know how our soldiers are living under the emotional such occurrences, it asks me to deal with subjective aspects difficult to treat. In any case, for all the emotional involvement is deep. But our soldiers, like those of other countries, are aware of their duties and risks associated with it and face them with determination. "
Recently you might have gotten involved in an unfortunate incident where he killed a little girl 13. the rules of engagement he's talked about, as well as the error of civilians or the military, but, as regards the human dimension, what happens in the population local events when they happen like that? As the local population perceives the presence of foreign armed forces that can make even very serious mistakes? There were times of confrontation with the local population?
"What dell'uccisone a 13 year old girl some time ago by one of our units is a drama that has greatly affected our full quota. No doubt it was an accident, but it is also equally certain that our children have followed the rules of engagement and the procedures in force to address what they perceived as a threat. Regarding the various investigations are in progress and I will not say more.
Regarding the reaction of the population, it is clear that the pain of the relatives of the little victim is inconsolable, but by the authorities and the rest of the population there has been understanding and there have been no incidents of protest against us. This is because the bonds that have come to create between the Italians and the premises are strong and everyone recognizes the efforts and sacrifices that our people do to ensure local people the best living conditions.
Our kids, of course, have suffered deeply what had happened, even though they know they do not have to criticize anything. But this awareness is obviously not enough to wipe out an episode that I think will mark their lives forever.
Let me suggest a thought. While the incident is a tragedy, it is equally true that it would be considered a drama, the attitude of renunciation that could be induced in our men from fear of having to pressure from the media and the authorities in case of other sensitive situations. They, in fact, is required to continue to operate in the same dangerous environment in which these events took place, and if they chose to shut themselves up in camps in order to avoid painful situations like the one in question, would be the first to lose the Afghans, who would be left to themselves. "
How is a young Italian soldier so strong professional experience in an area at risk and with tasks that pose a risk to their lives? What climate do we live?
"I have no age, unfortunately, to get me an interpreter of the young soldiers of today. But I have been a boy and I found them as difficult to deal with similar experiences and engaging (I speak of Lebanon in 1981, Somalia and the Balkans essentially). There is no doubt that this experience very morally. It is in contact with people different from ours, you quickly learn to admire the strength with which they deal with difficulties that we would be unimaginable. We see and we understand the world as it really is, without the distorting effects triggered by this powerful filter that is television. In other words, we de-provincialization quickly and you realize how our rich and terrified the West is wrong to treat people with contempt and arrogance is often better than us, for simplicity, frugality, willingness to sacrifice, sense of 'honor and respect for people. Of course, above all, that if we were born in the rich part of the world is certainly not to our credit. "
In recent months, referring to the conflict in this region, is often spoken of Af-Pak, ie Afghanistan and Pakistan with regard to enlargement face to the neighboring provinces of Pakistan due to the exodus of the civilian population in those areas and attacks from the Taliban, in fact, Pakistan. The Americans are actively engaged militarily. What orders has to respect the Italian contingent? What do you think of this shift to the east of the conflict?
"Afghanistan and Pakistan are certainly linked by a common destiny. The instability in one country may not be reflected in a corresponding instability in the other. Of this, now, the entire international community if they have noticed and also the two countries are acting accordingly, working ever more strongly. In any case, this situation not affect the duties of the Italian contingent, which is framed in ISAF, only serves to support the Afghan government. In other words, no contingent of ISAF is involved with operations of any kind in Pakistan. "
often gets the impression that any American military action is undeniable and justified, while the other quotas must inevitably have the permission to move U.S. . Besides, the Afghan president Karzai has often been called the "mayor of Kabul" to emphasize his lack of authority outside the capital. What is the relationship between the commanders in the Italian and Afghan authorities? Refer them to discuss and decide on military intervention , or your partner remain ISAF military leaders led by the Americans? The U.S. attack on Pakistani provinces was planned with the international command?
"The American commander of ISAF, but the command itself is NATO, which is composed of officers of all countries of the Alliance. The Deputy Commander is British and I, an Italian, I am the Chief of Staff . There are also General German, French, English, Australian, Dutch and American, of course. At the lower levels, the representation of NATO (and beyond) is extended. In addition, there are also Afghan liaison officers, which are coordinated through all activities operational support to the Afghan Army, involved in activities in full, from the planning stage.
Afghanistan is historically a country almost impossible to conquer. In 2001, eight years ago, the Americans have invaded the country to fight a global war on terrorism, following an international mission was to defeat the Taliban and rebuild a democratic country. Then the Iraq and Afghan conflict has lost its importance. Today there is talk of the Taliban threat and both countries are to be rebuilt . What is the future of the mission in Afghanistan, where the real opportunities and what are the hardest obstacles to overcome?
"There is no doubt that the future Afghanistan depends on how the policy will reconcile enmities that now seem incurable. Moreover, it is a difficult goal to achieve, if we consider that 64 years after the end of World War II we Italians are not able to heal the wounds that caused each other and our fathers. This is a task of peace that can only fall into the hands of the Afghans. To us, the task of helping them, providing security to their Governments, so that his authority and expand his control over the territory. "
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